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Ehevertrag in Deutschland und Thailand

Erstellt von JayNonthaburi, 09.07.2009, 12:52 Uhr · 51 Antworten · 7.636 Aufrufe

  1. #1
    Avatar von JayNonthaburi

    Registriert seit

    Ehevertrag in Deutschland und Thailand

    Ich werde im naechsten halben Jahr heiraten und meine Liebste und ich wollen Ehevertraege schliessen das unsere Vermoegenswerte so wie gehabt getrennt bleiben.

    Wir haben vor in Thailand zu heiraten und nach ihrem A1 Test nach Deutschland zu gehen.

    Hat jemand damit schon Erfahrungen gemacht? Macht es Sinn einen Ehevertrag in Deutschland und einen in Thailand zu schliessen?

  3. #2
    Avatar von DisainaM

    Registriert seit

    Re: Ehevertrag in Deutschland und Thailand

    um mal einen gewissen Einstieg in die Materie zu geben :

    1) Why do I need a prenuptial agreement?
    Prenuptial agreements are necessary to create a financial plan which can be managed through the course of marriage/or upon the disintegration of the marriage. It is also useful for people who own substantial assets and properties and wish to control the division of the assets upon divorce.

    2) Can we have an agreement after the marriage is registered?
    According to Thai law, an agreement made after the marriage does not have the same effect as a prenuptial agreement. (see marriage page)

    3) I am a foreign national and I am thinking of bringing my Thai fiancé to my home country. Which types of law firms should I hire for the prenuptial agreement?
    You should hire a law firm competent in the laws of both Thailand and western nations. This is to ensure that the attorneys understand the issues involved in preparing a prenuptial agreement which concerns the laws of Thailand and other foreign countries such as USA, UK, Australia or EU countries. A good law firm should draft the prenuptial agreement according to the requirements of the Thai law and the minimum requirements of the law in your home country.

    4) Why should I be cautious when hiring a law firm to prepare my prenuptial agreement?
    A prenuptial agreement is a serious matter which has significant effects on your future. There are a number of firms that accept this type of work but are unqualified to perform it. You should select a firm that has an international divorce practice, and understands the issues concerning international prenuptial agreements and marital rights in Thailand and the other countries involved.

    5) Which types of property division can I specify in a prenuptial agreement?
    It depends on the law involved; This may be Thai law or the law of the spouse’s home country (or a combination of both). Under Thai law, you may be able to specify the properties involved and separate them into two categories - community property and separate property. You can also specify how finances will be managed during the marriage. However, restrictions on child support are generally not allowed.

    6) Does it matter if I get married in Thailand or my home country?
    Yes. There are issues concerning conflicts of law and the applicability of those laws. Therefore, it is important that your attorneys understand both the laws in and outside of Thailand.

    Considerations for International Prenuptial Agreements

    This article has been prepared by Chaninat & Leeds, a Thailand Law firm managed by an American lawyer in Bangkok.

    Thailand is a popular travel destination and like other travel destinations around the world, people of different nationalities come, meet, and fall in love. As a result, there are many marriages between non-Thai and nationals of other countries or between Thai and foreign nationals. A person planning marriage who has assets or income he/she is seeking to protect and who intends to marry in Thailand should be aware of the laws and practices surrounding prenuptial agreements in both Thailand and their home country in order to adequately protect their assets, plan for legal obstacles and lower potential litigation risks in the case of divorce.

    Issues of Multinational Law

    The issues surrounding a prenuptial agreement in an international context are often oversimplified. Unfortunately, attorneys promising services in international prenuptial agreements often have little or no experience in actually litigating divorce cases, let alone international divorce cases. As a result, it is important to hire an attorney that has actual multinational jurisdiction and courtroom experience (involving family court issues) in order to understand both the legal issues and practicalities of using a prenuptial agreement in the context of a divorce case that has international considerations. You would not hire a doctor that has just graduated from a medical school correspondence course and has never actually picked up a scalpel; you would want to hire an experienced surgeon that has actually performed operations on patients with a similar condition. Similarly, one should hire an attorney to draft a prenuptial agreement that has actually been involved in divorce cases in an international setting.

    Choice of Venue and Choice of Law

    Two common clauses in most contracts, including prenuptial agreements, are the choice of venue and the choice of law clause. In most modern legal jurisdictions, persons have freedom to contract to a great degree and must specify which law one would like to apply as well as state their preference as to which forum they would like to use. In the legal context, the word “forum” means the jurisdiction of the court where the case will be heard and decided.

    Laws pertaining to commercial contracts (contracts that deal with issues of business) are different from the laws that apply to family law contracts. With regard to commercial contracts, most jurisdictions honor the principle of freedom of contract. Freedom of contract means that most agreements that do not expressly violate laws, or are objectionable and are not against general principles of morality, would be honored. This is because business relationships are voluntary relationships between adults and do not generally enter the realm of morality, health, or public interest. On the other hand, family law contracts are treated in a special manner because governments believe that they have a special duty to protect certain sensitive areas, such as domestic issues and, in particular, issues involved in raising children. The freedom of contract principle, which is honored in commercial contracts, is not a factor as significant in family law contracts (including prenuptial agreements).

    Therefore, there are certain basic principles of family law that are reserved for decisions by the court and cannot be altered by private agreement.

    Forum Shopping

    “Forum shopping” is the practice of searching for a jurisdiction with the most favorable law to begin a lawsuit. Although the best crafted prenuptial agreement may state a specific forum, this fact may not prevent an aggrieved spouse that is anticipating a divorce to file in a different forum. The divorce may also be allowed in that different forum despite the fact that it is in express contravention of that particular choice of forum clause as stated in the agreement. In domestic matters such as divorce, especially when children are involved, courts will be more likely to disregard choice of forum clauses if they believe they have jurisdiction of the case. Again, this practice will be more tolerated in family law and divorce cases than in commercial matters.

    Conflict of Law

    Another, somewhat arcane area of the law that most domestic attorneys do not practice (and therefore do not understand) is the law of Conflict of Law. Conflict of Law is a very specialized area that involves cases that are multijurisdictional. The basic premise is that it is possible to have the law of the one jurisdiction apply in the courts of a different jurisdiction; US courts, for example, may apply Thailand law or vice versa. Conflict of Law is the body of law that controls which issues will be controlled by which laws in an international context. Each jurisdiction has its own Conflict of Law. The body of law that composes Conflict of Law involves statutory law and case law.

    Domestic Lawyers and Judges in International Practice

    One of the realities of an international divorce practice is that the cases will be brought in the local family courts as there are no special family law courts for international cases. Regardless of how well-drafted your prenuptial agreement is, the judge and lawyers presenting the case will likely have minimal experience with international issues and issues of conflict of law and other international laws will be unfamiliar to them. A prenuptial agreement is a tool to protect your interests but the tool is only as useful as the craftsman wielding the tool; the selection of your domestic lawyer to assert your rights under a Thailand prenuptial agreement in a domestic court is extremely important.

    Common Misconceptions about Prenuptial Agreements

    The internet has provided a forum for the free flow of information, which in the case of prenuptial agreements, has helped to create a number of myths based on unqualified opinions:
    Myth #1: We have an ironclad prenuptial agreement.
    Reality: In a divorce case in a Western jurisdiction, a prenuptial can be challenged and struck down. There are a number of grounds to invalidate a prenuptial agreement and whether the agreement is upheld is dependent on many factors other than the agreement itself. In a courtroom, lawyers argue and present evidence and judges make decisions that can be appealed.

    Myth #2: A US prenuptial agreement that complies with the Uniform Premarital Agreement Act is strong and secure.

    Reality: The US is a common law (as opposed to civil law) jurisdiction. This means that judges rule based on case precedent. Every state has its own case law. If a state has adopted a Uniform Act, this provides a foundation for the most basic issues. However, the majority of statutes and law concerning prenuptial agreements will be found in case law and not in the Uniform Act. The law of each state will differ despite the fact that the state may have adopted a Uniform Act.

    Myth # 3: Prenuptial agreements in Thailand are of limited value.

    Reality: Thai law routinely enforces prenuptial agreements that accord with Thai law. Unlike Western jurisdictions, a prenuptial agreement is registered with the government at the time of marriage registration. There are circumstances where the Thailand prenuptial agreement may be invalidated but they are fewer than in Western common law jurisdictions

    Difference in Reception of Prenuptial Agreement in Thailand vs. Western Jurisdictions

    For a prenuptial agreement that is drafted and executed in Thailand, the Thai law is quite clear. The prenuptial agreement will be enforced provided that the agreement complies with the standard requirements imposed by the relevant Thai laws concerning prenuptial agreements. It may be the case that even in Thailand, the issues in the divorce case will be controlled by both the prenuptial agreement and relevant laws. Such relevant laws include the Conflict of Law Act and, as a result, foreign (non-Thai) law often becomes an issue in divorce and family law cases.

    In Western common law jurisdictions, scrutiny of prenuptial agreements is usually more intense. As referred to above, there is general policy in Western jurisdictions (as well as other jurisdictions) that the state has an overriding interest in certain domestic issues. In Western jurisdictions, there are a number of exceptions that do not exist in Thai law that may invalidate a prenuptial agreement, including: a) that the agreement was not fairly entered into; b) the agreement violates the public policy of the state; c) there was not a sufficient “cooling off” period; d) assets were not fully disclosed; e) one of the parties to the agreement was not represented by competent legal counsel.

    The issue of drafting prenuptial agreements in an international law context is a complex issue best left to attorneys with practical experience in litigation of international divorce cases. The drafting of the agreement is not simply a matter of drafting a formal agreement or following the uniform rules on prenuptial agreements. There are various issues that need to be examined and analyzed to determine the best strategy during the drafting process. These issues include the laws of all relevant jurisdictions, the Conflict of Law provisions involved, jurisdictional issues with regard to property and persons involved, and the objectives of the parties involved. Whether your prenuptial agreement is drafted well or not may take years to find out when it is tested in an actual court divorce hearing. Be prudent and check the actual experience of the Bangkok US Attorney drafting the prenuptial agreement.

    Prenuptial agreement Thailand - What to know about how to make a Thai prenup

    A prenuptial agreement is a document, a legal contract, that spouses sign before entering a marriage. It's also called an antenuptial or premarital agreement. The opposite is a postnuptial contract, which is a contract made between husband and wife after their marriage.

    Prenuptial agreements provide a financial plan which can be managed through the course of marriage or upon the break-up of the marriage (example: divorce). For people with substantial assets and properties and wish to control the division of the assets upon divorce, this legal document is very useful.

    Under Thai law, prenuptial and a postnuptial agreements are 2 types of agreements that can be made in relation of the assets between a husband and a wife.

    A Thai prenuptial agreement is an agreement concerning of the assets between a husband and a wife made and governed by Thai law only. Thai Law is limiting prenuptial agreements and you must follow Thai rules in order to have a valid contract. A valid and enforceable Thai prenuptial agreement requires by Law that:

    1. It needs to be in writing on the same date of marriage registration, or;
    2. It has to be a written agreement signed by both parties.
    3. Two witnesses are required.
    4. The agreement should be attached with the marriage certificate where the marriage is registered.

    A "Buddha marriage" is not considered a legal marriage in Thailand. A legal marriage is a public act, it is official and registered at a local office. Because a marriage is a public act, the reason why we must register prenuptial agreements in Thailand is to announce to the third parties about the how the relationship of the spouses will be governed.

    A Thai prenuptial agreement is concerning only the assets management of a husband and a wife during their marriage. The prenuptial agreement will be considered void, if; for example:

    * The prenuptial agreement specified that if a husband goes out with other lady, a wife can file a divorce. This clause is considered void because it is an agreement contrary to public order or good morals according to section 1465 paragraph 2 and section 150 of the Thai Commercial and Civil Code.
    * A male who used to pay alimony to his mother every month before marriage. If the prenuptial agreement specified that all his salary will be given to his wife even his mother’s alimony. It is considered that void because it is an agreement contrary to public or good morals.

    In addition, if the clause specified that it is governed by foreign law, it is considered void. In contrary, it specified that in case that a husband and a wife live separately, all assets acquired during separation are considered private property. Even though this clause is from the provisions of California State, it shall be valid.

    The agreement is unenforceable if specified that the debt of a couple; for example, the education’s debt will be personal debt of a husband or the debt arising from business of both will be personal debt of wife.The altered or cancelled of prenuptial agreement must apply to the court for authorization in order to protect their interest, influences over the other party or force to alter or cancel the prenuptial agreement.In case of a minor wishing to get married and make a prenuptial agreement, a minor must get consent from parents, adoptive parent or legal representative of marriage and make an agreement. (Majority is 20 years-old in Thailand).

    If you need a Law firm to draft you a prenuptial agreement, you can ask for a quote by sending an email to Isaan Lawyers This e-mail address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it .

    Related Law

    Commercial and Civil Code of Thailand:

    Section 1465 Where the husband and wife have not, previous to their marriage, concluded a special agreement concerning their properties, the relations between them as regards their properties shall be governed by the provisions of this chapter.

    Section 1466 The prenuptial agreement is void if not entered with the Marriage Register at the time of marriage registration terms of the prenuptial; or if not made in writing and signed by both parties and by at least two witnesses and entered with the Marriage Register at the time of marriage registration stating that the prenuptial is there to annexed.

    Section 1467 After marriage the prenuptial agreement cannot be altered except by authorization of the court. When there is final order of the court to effect the alteration of cancellation of the prenuptial agreement, the court shall notify the Marriage Registrar of the matter in order to have it entered with the Marriage Register.

    Section 1468 Clauses in the prenuptial agreement shall have no effect as regards the rights of third persons acting in good faith irrespective of whether they be altered or cancelled by the order of the Court.

    A Conflict of Laws Act:

    Section 22 As regards the property of husband and wife, if there is no ante-nuptial agreement, the law of nationality shall govern. If the husband and the wife have different nationalities, the property of husband and wife shall be governed by the law of nationality of the husband. However, as regards immovable property, the law of the place where such property is situated shall govern.

    Section 23 The effects of marriage as governed by the two foregoing sections shall not be affected if, after marriage, either or both spouses acquire a nationality different from the nationality possessed or acquired at the time of marriage.

    Section 24 As regards the property of husband and wife, if an ante-nuptial agreement is made, the capacity for making such agreement shall be governed by the law of nationality of each party.

    Section 25 If the parties have the same nationality, the essential elements and effects of an ante-nuptial agreement shall be governed by the law of common nationality of the parties. If they have different nationalities, such essential elements and effects shall be governed by the law under which the parties intended or may be presumed to have intended to submit themselves; in the absence of such intention, the law of the first matrimonial domicile shall govern. However, as regards immovable property, the law of the place where such property is situated shall govern.

  4. #3
    Avatar von DisainaM

    Registriert seit

    Re: Ehevertrag in Deutschland und Thailand

    Standart Vertragsentwürfe

    welche Probleme können beim Verfassen auftreten

    Major Problems that can emerge when creating a Prenuptial agreement in Thailand.

    With regard to Thailand, Prenuptial Agreements can be difficult to enforce if certain precautions are not taken at the outset to ensure the Prenuptial Agreement is properly crafted.

    A Prenuptial Agreement can be rendered unenforceable under certain conditions, when dealing with a Thai fiancé/ fiancée these are some of the major issues that can arise:

    * 1. The Prenuptial Agreement is deemed unenforceable against a Thai fiancé/ fiancée because he or she could not understand what they were signing at the time they signed it.
    * 2. The Prenuptial Agreement is rendered unenforceable because the Thai fiancé/ fiancée did not have separate legal counsel to advise him or her on the matter in Thai so that he or she could render a properly informed opinion as to whether or not to sign the agreement.
    * 3. The Premarital Agreement is deemed unenforceable because it did not comply with the US Uniform Premarital Agreement Act. the domestic law of the foreigner
    * 4. The Prenuptial Agreement is deemed unenforceable under the laws of the jurisdiction in which enforcement is sought because the Agreement does not comply with the rules governing Prenuptial Agreements in that jurisdiction. (A possible complication very often overlooked by non-licensed so-called legal professionals).
    * 5. The Prenuptial Agreement was improperly Notarized and/or Apostilled in either Thailand or the United States.

    - ad 1, Vertrag sollte 2 sprachig sein

    - ad 2, der Vertrag sollte ausschliesslich nur in Frage kommen, wenn es zu einer Scheidung in Thailand kommt, daher muss auf die Besonderheiten des deutschen Rechtes keine Bedeutung beigemessen werden, weil ein separater deutscher Ehevertrag in Deutschland gemacht wird.
    - ad 3,4, siehe ad 2
    - ad 5, der th. Ehevorvertrag wird bei einem th. Anwalt aufgesetzt, und bei Gericht registriert.

    und noch ein wenig background
    Buying real-estate when married to a Thai (management, prenuptial agreement and divorce)
    Source: Samuiforsale March 21 2009

    Ownership of land in Thailand is not open to foreigners but many foreigners who are married to Thai nationals buy land (in practice often land and house) in their Thai spouse's name. To understand the consequences of buying real estate or land in your Thai spouse's name in Thailand it is important to understand difference between personal property and jointly owned property between husband and wife and the right of management of jointly owned and personal property.

    Personal property during marriage under Thai law;

    Irrespective if you have made a marriage contract or 'prenuptial agreement' with your Thai spouse, for all marriages in Thailand the law specifies that property belonging to either spouse before the marriage remains his or her personal property during the marriage, and each spouse shall remain the sole manager of his or her personal property. What's yours before the marriage remains yours during the marriage. If personal property during the marriage has been exchanged to other property, other property has been bought or money has been acquired from selling it, such other property or money acquired shall be personal property (Sin Suan Tua).

    Section 1472 of the Thailand Civil and Commercial Code. 'As regards to Sin Suan Tua (personal property), if it has been exchanged to other property, other property has been bought or money has been acquired from selling it, such other property or money acquired shall be Sin Suan Tua'.

    Jointly owned matrimonial property;

    A marriage in Thailand creates jointly owned or matrimonial property community between husband and wife. In general 'benefit and income' of each spouse during marriage will under Thai law become jointly owned 'matrimonial community property' between husband and wife.

    The law allows limited freedom between the spouses to create their own matrimonial community property regime. In general; property acquired during marriage (subject to the above section 1472) and 'fruits' from personal property during marriage will become jointly owned property (Sin Somros) between husband and wife. This applies to all marriages, irrespective if parties have concluded a marriage contract (prenuptial agreement) prior to their marriage. In principle property acquired by inheritance, legacy or gift, and old-age pension plans (although upon divorce the other spouse could claim a share of the pension built up during marriage are personal property) become or remain personal property.

    As a simple example how the 'benefit and income' rule in Thailand works; if you have 100,000 Thai baht (THB) in your bank account at the time of marriage and 5 years later you have saved an additional 15,000 THB from your income (profession or business) and you received interest over this amount of 5,000 THB and the total amount in your bank account has grown to 120,000 THB, then, upon divorce your spouse shall be entitled to half of the increase (i.e. 10,000 THB). In the same situation if the amount has increased with another 50,000 THB from an inheritance, this in principle becomes a personal property (Sin Suan Tua) of the person receiving the inheritance. In this case; even though your bank account has in this case increased to (100,000 + 15,000 + 5,000 + 50,000 = 170,000 THB) your spouse will upon divorce be entitled to only 10,000 THB.
    Management of property during marriage;

    Each spouse shall remain the manager of his or her personal property, however, a marriage contract or Thai prenuptial agreement may grant the management of certain Sin Somros (jointly owned property) to one of the spouses (here lies the main benefit of a marriage contract in Thailand). Without a prenuptial agreement certain legal acts with regards and to certain jointly owned properties must be managed jointly by the husband and wife, unless parties have made a marriage contract or prenuptial agreement before their marriage.
    Section 1476. 'In managing the Sin Somros in the following cases, the husband and wife have to be joint manager, or one spouse has to obtain consent from the other:
    (1) Selling, exchanging, sale with the right of redemption, letting out property on hire-purchase, mortgaging, releasing mortgage to mortgagor or transferring the right of mortgage on immovable property or on mortgageable movable property.
    (2) Creating or distinguishing the whole or a part of the servitude, right of inhabitation, right of superficies, usufruct or charge on immovable property.
    (3) Letting immovable property for more than three years.
    (4) Lending money
    (5) Making a gift unless it is a gift for charitable, social or moral purposes and is suitable to the family condition.
    (6) Making a compromise.
    (7) Submitting a dispute to arbitration.
    (8) Putting up the property as guarantee or security with a competent official or the Court.
    The management of the Sin Somros in any case other than those provided in paragraph one can be made only by one spouse without having to obtain consent from the other'. -------

    The most important jointly owned asset during a marriage will in most cases be immovable property. However, as the foreign spouse in Thailand can't have ownership or joint ownership with his Thai spouse in land the property will be registered in the Thai spouse's name as a personal property and not a joint property (Sin Somros). Therefore the Thai spouse will be the sole manager of the property (e.g. the Thai spouse can sell the property without the consent of the foreign spouse).

    The Land Department will allow transfer of ownership of the land to a Thai national who is married to a foreigner after a joint statement 'a letter of confirmation' of the couple stating that the money expended is personal property of the Thai spouse (i.e. under section 1472 the land will become a personal property of the Thai spouse). This requirement is based on a regulation issued by the Ministry of Interior (March 1999). It would be illegal for a foreigner to have joint ownership in land with his or her Thai spouse in Thailand!

    An important aspect for the foreigner is of course the fact that his/ her Thai spouse has full management and control over the property and in case of a divorce he/ she would be able to sell the property. Control over personal property (in this case the immovable property) can't be arranged in a prenuptial agreement. Often the foreigner tries to protect his interest in the property by entering into separate agreements with the Thai spouse (this could be a usufruct, superficies, lease, loan, etc), however as a general rule in Thailand:

    Section 1469 of the Thailand Civil and Commercial Code: 'Any agreement concluded between husband and wife during marriage may be avoided by either of them at any time during marriage or within one year from the day of dissolution of marriage; provided that the right of third persons acting in good faith is not affected thereby'.

    The first protection in the property for the foreign husband lies in registering joint ownership over the building separate from the land. It's only the land aspect of the property that is restricted for foreign ownership, not the structures upon on the land or immovable property as a whole. It most cases land and house will be registered together in the Thai spouse's name, however, the structures on the land (the house) can be a jointly owned property or even owned as a personal property of the foreign husband, even though the land is owned as a personal property of the the Thai spouse. By registering ownership or co-ownership over the house at the Land Department the foreign spouse prevents a situation where the Thai spouse is able to sell the whole property without the consent of the other spouse (see section 1476 'management of Sin Somros' above). The house will be a Sin Somros therefore must be jointly managed by both spouses and selling would need both spouses consent.

    Ownership or co-ownership over the house must be registered at the Land Department. Registration is a right of the other spouse.

    Section 1475: 'Where any Sin Somros is property of the kind mentioned in Section 456 (meaning immovable property) of this Code or has documentary title, either husband or wife may apply for having his or her name entered in the documents as co-owners'.

    The second option for protection lies in registering a right of usufruct, or in case of undeveloped land a right of superficies against the property in the foreign spouse's name at the Land Department. The above section 1469 (the right to avoid any agreement) will have limited impact on registered real rights (as long as they are registered on the title deed at the Land Department), and in any case the Thai spouse would need a Court order to cancel the usufruct or superficies, therefore making registered real rights like a usufruct or superficies an acceptable protection for a foreign spouse if the money expended on the property comes from personal property of the foreign spouse.

    Upon divorce or dissolution of the marriage in Thailand the couple must make some form of 'credit balance' (what has become joint or partly joint owned property and how jointly owned property will be divided). Jointly owned property will in principle be divided equally between the spouses. A divorce in Thailand can be by mutual consent (the spouses agree on a divorce settlement or agreement) or the divorce shall be decided by the Court and the Court will divide the community property according to the law and individual circumstances. In our opinion, even though in some cases land and house is registered as personal property of the Thai spouse, this must be included in the credit balance and division of the couple assets.

    Often the couple will have a mix of personal and jointly owned property and a prenuptial and administration of your personal and jointly owned property could help in case of a divorce. Keep track of all your personal assets and payments you made from personal property during marriage would be the best advice.

    In case of debts, in principle, if upon divorce the debts exceed the couple's 'community of benefit and income' the debts are to be divided between the spouses in proportion to which each spouse caused them to belong to the matrimonial community (an exception may be made). Personal debts remain personal debts.

    Benefits of a Thai prenuptial agreement

    Under Thai law, in case of marriage personal property remains personal property and management remains with each spouse. A prenuptial agreement is not required to achieve this. A prenuptial can arrange management of jointly owned property, however, if the main joint asset between husband and wife in Thailand is immovable property the land will be registered in the Thai spouse's name as a personal property and therefore will be managed by the Thai spouse. The prenuptial agreement can't arrange management differently or restrict management over personal property. Registering co-ownership over the structure built upon the land will by law require joint management by both spouses and also selling of the property as a whole (land and House) requires consent of both spouses. A prenuptial does not change this. A prenuptial agreement with your Thai spouse has some benefits (primarily as proof of personal property and intention of the parties) but as the main benefit of a prenuptial agreement in Thailand concerns management of jointly owned property under section 1476 of the Civil and Commercial Code, in practice a prenuptial agreement does not change what is already arranged in the section 'property between husband and wife' of the law. The practical effect of a prenuptial in a Thai/ foreign marriage is limited.

    Note: if one of the spouses has substantial income and/ or assets outside Thailand he/ she should obtain local legal advice to assess the impact of the marriage in that country. In some jurisdictions it is possible to exclude any form of community property between husband and wife, while in others similar rules as in Thailand apply. Mostly spouses have a 'choice of law' option in case of a marriage between spouses with different nationalities, this subject to a 'conflict of law' rule, but generally: you may register your marriage in Thailand but have a prenuptial agreement in another country protecting assets in that country (but this is really a matter of taking local legal advice prior to your marriage). Each country has different rules and it may not be in your interest to have a Thai prenuptial agreement or Thai law governing your assets during a marriage under Thai law.

  5. #4
    Avatar von burma

    Registriert seit

    Re: Ehevertrag in Deutschland und Thailand

    Zitat Zitat von JayNonthaburi",p="746896
    Ich werde im naechsten halben Jahr heiraten und meine Liebste und ich wollen Ehevertraege schliessen das unsere Vermoegenswerte so wie gehabt getrennt bleiben.

    Wir haben vor in Thailand zu heiraten und nach ihrem A1 Test nach Deutschland zu gehen.

    Hat jemand damit schon Erfahrungen gemacht? Macht es Sinn einen Ehevertrag in Deutschland und einen in Thailand zu schliessen?
    Es macht Sinn zu einem Anwalt bzw. Notar zu gehen.
    Vorallem macht es Sinn sich hier keine Rechtsberatung zu holen. Vorallem dann nicht, wenn der Vorposter etwas zusammenwürfelt, was nicht stimmt.

  6. #5
    Avatar von franky_23

    Registriert seit

    Re: Ehevertrag in Deutschland und Thailand

    Da weder im Thairecht noch im D REcht die Vermögenswerte vor der Ehe in die Zugewinngemeinschaft einfließen ist dies, wenn keine weiteren Beweggründe vorhanden sind, überflüssig wie ein Kropf einen Ehevertrag zu machen, ...

  7. #6
    Avatar von Philip

    Registriert seit

    Re: Ehevertrag in Deutschland und Thailand

    In Deutschland kann ein Ehevertrag sowohl vor als auch nach der Heirat erstellt werden (Notar!).
    Ein Ehevertrag macht Sinn z.B. bei Unternehmern oder wenn Grundbesitz (Wertsteigerung!) vorhanden ist.
    Wenn vor der Heirat kein Ehevertrag erstellt wurde kleiner Tipp: Zum Zeitpunkt der Heirat auf ein hohes "Anfangsvermögen" achten. Am Tag vor der Heirat von Freunden und Verwandten Geld leihen - auf das eigene Girokonto einzahlen - am Tag der Heirat Kontoauszug drucken und sorgfältig archivieren - am Tag nach der Heirat das Geld wieder abheben und zurückgeben.
    Wenn dann - aus welchen Gründen auch immer - nach der Heirat doch kein Ehevertrag zustande kommt, erkennst du den Sinn eines hohen Anfangsvermögen bei einer Scheidung.

  8. #7
    Avatar von Andichan

    Registriert seit

    Re: Ehevertrag in Deutschland und Thailand

    Hallo @JayNonthaburi

    Das man sich für den Fall der Fälle rüstetn möchte, kann ich ja irgendwo verstehen. Doch macht man einen Ehevertrag nicht nur dann, wenn es um Vermögenswerte geht?

    Ich selbst habe eigentlich noch gar nicht an einen Ehevertrag gedacht. Es möge ja sein, dass dies ein Fehler ist. Nur zu hohlen gibt es ja eh nicht viel. Habe keine Millionen auf dem Konto (Schade). Als "Normalo" ohne viel Zasta wäre dies wohl auch zuviel verlangt, wenn man sich mithilfe eines Notars, der nicht kostenlos arbeit, einen Ehevertrag zusammenstellen lässt, wenn nicht´s zu teilen gibt.

    Fakt ist doch, dass alles was ab dem Zeitpunkt der Ehe als Zugewinn erwirtschaftet wurde sowieso halbiert wird. Es sein denn es sind Kinder im Spiel.

    Nach dem neuen Eherecht sind die Grenzen ohnehin vorgezeigt.

    Möge sein, dass ich etwas zu blauäugig bin. :-( Das man für die Frau nach getaner Ehe für gewisse Dinge aufkommen muss, ist ja klar. Nur ein Ausbrennen durch die (ehem.)Frau kommt nach neuem Recht nur noch sehr schwer. Wie gesagt, es kommt auf dem Zugewinn ab Eheschluss an.



  9. #8
    Avatar von Philip

    Registriert seit

    Re: Ehevertrag in Deutschland und Thailand

    Ein Ehevertrag wird erstellt um einen Zugewinnausgleich auszuschließen.
    Die Änderung im neuen Scheidungsrecht ab 1.9.2009 ist u.a., dass auch ein "Negatives Anfangsvermögen" möglich ist. Bisher war dies mindestens 0,- Euro.

  10. #9
    Avatar von tira

    Registriert seit

    Re: Ehevertrag in Deutschland und Thailand

    Zitat Zitat von Frederik",p="747152
    Ein Ehevertrag wird erstellt um einen Zugewinnausgleich auszuschließen.....

    habe selbst hier in d einen ehevertrag, mache jedoch keinen zugewinn mehr.
    doch anwalt, notar und vereidigter übersetzer sind bezahlt.

  11. #10
    Avatar von DisainaM

    Registriert seit

    Re: Ehevertrag in Deutschland und Thailand

    mal eine Variante,

    Ehe steht vor dem Kippen,
    Deutscher lässt sich für ein Jahr in der Firma beurlauben,
    fährt ins Ferienhaus nach Thailand, und reicht dort die Scheidung ein.

    ... was tun manche nicht alles, um ihre Rente zu schützen

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